Wednesday, February 23, 2011

Conversations out of Forumfall

Since I was really curious about Sun's opinion on their own size but couldn't really create a thread on Forumfall because trolls and flamers siege and destroy any interesting thread, I decided to pm Frank Sinatra himself and ask him. I've edited just very little pieces to make it more readable.

Hello Frank!
I got a question that I think is shared by a good share of this community and I believe it hasn't been asnwered due to the amount of trolling and flaming this forum has. So, even if I'd like for everyone to share his opinion in a correct way, I can't really expect that so I've decided to ask you.
It looks pretty obvious that the current negative opinon on Sun comes from the size your clan+alliance has obtained. Right now, the population of EU1 isn't willing to ally up to confront you, I'm pretty sure that the reason behind it is that it doesn't really affect their actual gameplay time, maybe just a little, some sea towers and being unable to siege you without hiring. So, what are your thoughts on this?

You are welcome to relay this, I'm all for getting the chance to say anything without getting attacked . My answer to your question is that I beleive that most players need a vent for their frustrations. I kinda look at it like Aventurine allways gets blamed for not putting more sand in the box, and Sun allways gets blamed for how we play with the sand there is. So i dont really think its personal hate, but more a outlet for frustrations. Its quite insane really because Darkfall has massive flaws, but its still the best mmo ive ever played which says a lot. I think the main frustration is that this game is so full of potential, but AV simply seems to small a company to fullfill this potential, and the almost provocating slow speed that new stuff is implemented just makes it a tough love.
As for the other part of your question regarding that it doesnt really affect other players gameplay then I think you are partly right.  I agree that it's a point that people don't really gang up on us because we dont really hurt their gameplay except in few circumstances like some seatowers.
However someone always wins the seatowers, some win the diceroll (I really think the seatower loot should be placed in the capping ships strongbox to be sailed home) and some win the battles. Sometimes its us and we get massive blame, and sometimes its others and they get massive blame. The short truth is simply that those who win in a competetive game will allways get the blame.
I wrote that I only partly agreed, because I also firmly beleive that another point is essential here. Running a large guild, or a big alliance is hard work - and the administrative tools needed for this is non existant.
Its really annoying that Av wants large battles but doesnt spend time on the organisation of these large groups.
The problem is that some of the things that would be helpfull to make organising large guilds and alliances easier are also sometimes anti sandbox, ill give some examples:
-Raidgroups where each groupleader is shown on the other groupmembers maps.
-Layered banking, make a sg bank a captain bank etc. Make sure that flowign income comes to the sg bank like for villages,workbench, seatower etc.
-Tax, implement a tax to be bound to a holding, that works just like the houses except instead of loosing your house the sgs can define what to do, for example get kicked from stone and kicked from the guild.
The tax part is MASSIVE work, and so easy to solve.
-City vendors, either just have then standnig with their wares or make a warehouse with the vendors in them.
-Make groupleaders be able to kick members of the group, so stupid that you have to remake the whole group if someone is afk.
-Have a looting chat channel, where you can see what is being looted and by who and when for the whole raid.
-Let allies travel for 1 portal shard.
-Make a alliance bank that sg's have access to.
-Make a alliance tax.
-Make payment schemes possible for city protections
-Make a auction house
-make some guild achievements, for example slaying a major mob like dragons and demons will give a Guildwide buff that lasts until serverdown.
-Let raidleaders set waypoints for the whole raid in another colour than the group waypoint
-Let the beacon spell have its effect where it hits and not only if it hits a player.
-Ingame parsing of node hits on holdings
-Let the city vendors sell bags with items in it for a set price. So the alliance crafters can make full sets and sell them instead of having to buy a item at a time.
And i guess i could go on.
So to sum up, I believe people always need someone to blame and for the moment thats us because we are the strongest. In 6 months its probably someone else and thats just how it goes. As for having more larger groups, i simply think that the main deterent is that its so much work due to a severe lack of tools for organising bigger guilds and alliances, and the above points would help that part a lot. The only reason we pull it off is that we have a big group of leaders in Sun, and we are good a dividing tasks and giving each other room to take a breather when we need a break.

I agree with what you say and I'd also like to see some of the tools you mentioned (I think most of them aren't that anti-sandboxy) in this great game. I also understand that some players have chosen you to vent their frustrations because you are the most powerful force in EU1 but part of that strength comes from your sheer numbers.
What I meant to ask was if you would consider downsizing so EU1 Political Power Struggle is more balanced or to reduce that negative trend towards Sun. Maybe you'll stay like this until server population increases and balances the PPS or until enough people ally up to fight you?

We cant downsize since downsizing means throwing friends out of a guild. We are a old guild who plays several games and we obviously cant throw memebrs out due to suddenly being too many because the other clans lost people. All we can do is to disband the alliance but it wont change much since vogue isn't having that many actives. (5 at the last seatower).
We field 50-60 Suns currently in sieges, and if thats the largest force in the game, then the problem isn't us but the rest of the guilds. My point in the former post was to make it easier to handle bigger alliances or guilds, and then im sure you would see more of those.
Everyone in our guild has a Alt in Sun and some has several - you can safely dovide our numbers by 2 and we are simply not that big in my oppinion. Even if we had 80 or 100 players i dont see that as a problem since someone has to be the strongest, and compared to US1 thats not even remotely high numbers.
I might add that you are right that we would love a strong enemy. Even though people dont belive it then we would be perfectly happy living in a hamlet or a chaos city if it was because there simply were stronger forces than ours, and while we do give quite a bit away, we are not really here to be nice to anyone or to be saviours of anything.

Thanx for the answers Frank!!


  1. It would be very nice right now to get the 'same' interview with Foggen, since Frank is definitely not the only player involved.

  2. Dear Frank,

    Seeing from your perspective; it must kind of suck, since its not like you can just kick members. However not having any challenge, which is why I would never join sun, is blatantly the reason most people do join (although I'm sure you are a friendly bunch aswell).

    Anyway one point: you say its the server pop's fault, which is a true. but part of the reason people got bored and stopped playing or moved to US1 was the lame politics, for which your clan is ~80% to blame.

    Even before when the server was more populated you were in a massive alliance (carn) with other large clans. Infact you have pretty much always been in the largest alliance on the server, at least since I started playing in sept 2009.

    This fact kind of makes alot of what you said about not wanting to be the biggest gang on the server seem like complete lies.

    Yours sincerely,